Fix Your Freebie: The Psychology of Lead Magnets That Convert with Jillian Leslie [Ep 204]

If you’ve ever created a freebie and wondered why no one’s signing up - this episode is your answer. I’m joined by OG blogger, tech founder, and host of the Blogger Genius podcast, Jillian Leslie, and we’re diving deep into the psychology behind lead magnets that actually convert.

We unpack the 6 buying triggers that make people sign up (and buy), how to stop creating “nice to have” PDFs and start building must have offers, and what to do when your freebie just isn’t working. Whether your email list is stalled, or you’re stuck in content chaos, this episode will help you simplify and start building trust that leads to sales.

What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

• The 6 powerful purchasing triggers behind every high-converting freebie
• How to create lead magnets that solve real problems (in under 2 pages)
• Why “boring PDFs” aren’t the problem - but how you talk about them is
• What to test first when your freebie isn’t working
• Tips to stay in your lane (and stop confusing your audience!) and more!

Connect with Jillian:
Website: https://milotree.com
Podcast: The Blogger Genius Show
Free Resource: 6 Purchasing Triggers PDF

My interview on Jillian's podcast: Why Selling in Your First Email Isn’t Pushy - It’s Profitable (And What Most Creators Get Wrong)

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Transcript

Jillian Leslie [00:00:00]:
Because at the end of the day, if you want to grow business that makes money, it becomes less about what you want and much more about what people want from you.

Kylie Kelly [00:00:14]:
Are you a female business owner frustrated with battling the algorithm and looking for growth strategies that don't involve awkwardly pointing or dancing online or throwing cash at paid ads? Welcome to the Email Growth Show. I'm your host, Kylie Kelly, visibility and email marketing strategist.

Jillian Leslie [00:00:30]:
I'm.

Kylie Kelly [00:00:30]:
I grew my email list from zero to almost 10,000 subscribers in less than two years. And the same is possible for you too.

Jillian Leslie [00:00:37]:
Are you ready to build your email.

Kylie Kelly [00:00:39]:
List and start making more money in your online business? Let's head into today's episode.

Jillian Leslie [00:00:46]:
Jillian, welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to chat with you today.

Jillian Leslie [00:00:50]:
Oh, thank you for having me. I love talking email.

Jillian Leslie [00:00:53]:
For anyone that's tuning in and listening that might not know you, can we start there? Can you share a little bit about yourself and what you do?

Jillian Leslie [00:00:59]:
Sure. So I am an original OG blog blogger. I've been creating businesses on the Internet with my husband since 2009. So the first site we created is called Catch My Party and Go. Still growing and Live. And it's party ideas where we show off user generated content. We also blog. So if in fact you've ever planned a birthday for one of your kids and you've gone to Pinterest and you're looking up Minnie Mouse parties, chances are you've clicked on a pin and ended up on our site.

Jillian Leslie [00:01:31]:
So that was the first, first business that we started growing. And so what happened was we were super dependent on Facebook at the beginning to grow our traffic. And then when Facebook started turning down the spigot, what we realized was Pinterest was sending us a ton of traffic. So my husband, who's a technologist who can build anything, built us a widget that's on our site. You can see it if you go to catch my party right now and it pops up and it says follow us on Pinterest. And lo and behold, just that little pop up has grown our Pinterest account to close to 2 million Pinterest followers. And it's like a flywheel. Like I'm always looking for.

Jillian Leslie [00:02:05]:
Where are these things that you can tap into in your business where it just continues to help you grow. So then I started my podcast. So I have a podcast called the Blogger Genius, which you will be a guest on very soon. And I started to really dig into what strategies work for bloggers and content creators interviewing experts like you, all different Kinds talking to people who have grown successful blogs and online businesses, coaches, creators, anybody who's figured something out, I want to talk to you. Then I started during the pandemic, I was lonely and I started a coaching group of other bloggers to help them really think about their blogs as businesses, businesses that make money. And during this, there were a couple people in the group who had big Facebook followings, they had like free Facebook groups and they didn't know how to turn those people into paying subscribers, like into some sort of membership. So, so I said to them, hey, you know, let me see if I can hack together some solution for you. And what I realized was it was actually pretty difficult.

Jillian Leslie [00:03:09]:
So my husband and I having built our pop up app and the thing that we, the problem, we're going to talk about problems, the problem that we solve is we build technology that's simple to use, it's complicated on our end, but we serve it up and make it so simple, so intuitive. That's what we're looking to do. We created tools for, for bloggers, content creators, coaches to sell digital products easily. And that's called Milo Tree. Our pop up app is part of it and it's called Milo Tree, which is named after our favorite tree in Hawaii. And so we then were able to help these bloggers. So they were our test cases, I'm all about testing. And what they said was, oh my God, this is so easy to use.

Jillian Leslie [00:03:54]:
And so anyway, so now we also sell software called Milo Tree where you can sell all kinds of digital products, you can offer all kinds of freebies, and if it's a digital download, we'll deliver it directly to your new subscriber and you get all these popups to add onto your blog, to grow your social media followers. So what I think about is our tools helps you make money through selling your expertise and we also help you grow your subscribers, your email subscribers and grow your social media, social media followers.

Jillian Leslie [00:04:30]:
Oh my goodness, I love that, Jillian, because how many times do we hear from people, especially when they're starting out like that they get stuck on the tech, that they get stuck on the complexity of all the moving pieces and what that is. Whereas I think it's amazing that you've taken that complexity away, you've made something super simple and that way there's more brilliant people that are able to create businesses and live the life that they want and all the things.

Jillian Leslie [00:04:51]:
Absolutely. Yeah. It's really. And so if you think about it, and I'm sure you talk about this a lot and people think of social like, oh, I need to be on Instagram. And I always, well, why, like, what are you trying to achieve? And you as the email expert know that social media is great for top of funnel. Like people who didn't know you before. It gives you distribution. But then your job is to figure out how to take them from becoming like, let's say they just see your content, maybe they follow you.

Jillian Leslie [00:05:19]:
Okay, how do you move them down so that now they want to subscribe to your list? And then ultimately email is the best way to sell. So if I can build that relationship with you and build that trust list and I can solve problems for you, chances are you will pay me for my solutions.

Jillian Leslie [00:05:39]:
I think I'm always saying that, yeah, your ideal clients are hanging out on Instagram or on social media, but they're buying in their inbox 100% need to get them to the email list. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about the freebie. Let's talk about how somebody that's listening can create a free resource that will actually move them through that funnel rather than it just being, I don't know, like a boring PDF that we create because we think we need to. Like, what's your take on freebies?

Jillian Leslie [00:06:02]:
So I say step back and look at your business and ask yourself, what is the big problem that you solve? And it needs to be very concrete. Maybe I help women who've just had a baby and want to lose those last ten pounds. So that's the big problem. But is there a way then that I can think about it as little slivers of problems that all work toward the big problem. So therefore, your freebie should be that first piece of the problem because you've got this person, say like a woman, a new mom who's stressed out and she doesn't feel as good about herself. What could you tap into? What small problem can you solve for this person to get them to go? Yes, and to give them a win. So will they lose 10 pounds with your PDF? Maybe not. But that's okay because you've got other offers along the way.

Jillian Leslie [00:07:06]:
Maybe you ultimately have a membership for other new moms who feel like they, they can't get enough sleep and they can't lose those 10 pounds. And that ultimately is really what it's all like leading to, is your membership. So for example, maybe there is a guide, a checklist of how to optimize your refrigerator with what food foods should you stock in your refrigerator that are filling, maybe protein rich Like, I don't, I don't, I'm not any sort of dietitian, so I'm making this up on the fly. But maybe you could say if you could stock your fridge with these 10 foods and you know, this is the first step on your journey to feeling better about yourself. And notice I don't even say ten pounds. I'm saying, what is that feeling? What is that transformation? Yes, the £10 leads me to feeling better about myself. So those are the feelings that are attached to what this transformation is. And one thing that I, I mentioned to you before we pressed record is I like to think of solutions in terms of so many people put out stuff and it's like, nice to have.

Jillian Leslie [00:08:15]:
Your blog post might be nice to have, right? But how do you turn it into a must have? And what I say is you gotta trigger people. And there are six purchasing triggers that I like to talk about. This applies to any product or service you're selling or your freebie, because remember, it is solving a problem, but it needs to be a problem that's pokey. Because why, like, my email address is valuable. I'm not going to give it up for just anything. You need to trigger something in me to give up my email address. And if you, if I give up my email address to you and you continue to provide solutions for me, then I might be willing to give up my credit card. So let's go through what these six purchasing buckets are.

Jillian Leslie [00:09:01]:
And what I would say is try and see if you can get your big problem that you solve into at least one of these purchasing buckets. But also every step along the way, start here and build from here. So these, these are what they are. Can your freebie or product make somebody money? Can your freebie or product save somebody money? Can they save somebody time? Can they move them toward happiness? Which would be this. I want to lose 10 pounds and feel better about myself. And this is a lot of where wellness hangs out right there. Can my product move somebody away from pain? I'm having relations problems. And then the final one is, can your freebie or product raise somebody's social status? So these literally start here because these are the things that are pokey enough that people will pay for.

Jillian Leslie [00:10:01]:
If you can get it to fit into more than one of these buckets, good job. It doesn't have to, but these are things where people will give something up to find that relief in their lives. And in fact, as I was going to say, if you want to get a copy of these, so you could really start here. Just go to milotree.com triggers because these are triggers. And in fact, I think that when you were saying, how do you not do the boring PDF that nobody needs or wants? It's because you want to trigger people both in a good way and a bad way, but you want to say, hey, pay attention, I can make your life better and I can solve a concrete problem, even if it's a very small problem. The 10 foods to have in your refrigerator to lose weight, don't over complicate it, but give me something that I'm looking for.

Jillian Leslie [00:10:55]:
I love that, Julian. And really making them feel something. Because again, in the world that we live in, it's so busy, there's so much noise in the online space specifically. Right. So we're getting dish content all the time. But if you can have something that falls into one of those buckets, it's going to make them stop and pay attention. And I also think it's quite interesting that when we are selling right, when we're launching, when we're selling things, they're often the main objections that people always have, right? I don't have enough time or I don't have enough money. Whereas if we are addressing that in the actual offer itself, we're kind of doing two things at once.

Jillian Leslie [00:11:29]:
We're overcoming that objection automatically by what we're creating, right?

Jillian Leslie [00:11:33]:
Absolutely. And you want to. So people are busy. Like people will think, well, I need to provide more. Like let's say you want to sell an ebook. They'll go, oh, how long should it be? What I need to do is put this in and this in and this in and kind of throw in the kitchen sink to show you that this is valuable. And I say, no, you want it to be short enough to solve an actual problem. It's not about adding extra stuff.

Jillian Leslie [00:11:59]:
So if my one page PDF for my freebie actually solves a problem, you're good because I can handle a one page or two page download. Don't give me an ebook. And as my freebie, don't make me work, don't make me have to get through this stuff. Like simple, simple, simple.

Jillian Leslie [00:12:19]:
And meeting your ideal clients where they're at, I suppose as well. So I know for myself the audio version of Things is what I listen to. If there's a private podcast, I will sign up to that so much quicker than I would a mini course or a webinar or something like that that I have to sit down and watch. So I think as well, being aware of that client that you're wanting to serve and meeting them where it's convenient for them to consume it. Right.

Jillian Leslie [00:12:41]:
Okay, so favorite freebie is like a podcast episode or a teaching, but it needs to be audio because you're busy in your life, you're driving, you're.

Jillian Leslie [00:12:53]:
I can two exit. I can. Yeah, absolutely.

Jillian Leslie [00:12:56]:
And that's how you learn. So if I give you a guide or a workbook, you're not interested.

Jillian Leslie [00:13:01]:
Unless. Well, hang on though. Unless I'm really triggered, right? If I'm really triggered and I'm like, I need this information, of course I, I would make allowances and make time for it, but if I'm not triggered, if I'm just curious, yeah, it will be audio all the way.

Jillian Leslie [00:13:16]:
Now the thing that I talk about a lot is testing, because there might be people like you who only want audio. So you could be busy in your life and listen to stuff and then there are people who just want like a quick workbook or who knows? And so this is where I'm going to say, when you are creating a freebie, you know, starting to sell digital products, any kind of product, I call you a miner and you're mining for gold. And what that means is you have a hypothesis, like you kind of have an idea. I know what my people, what they want from me. So I have a hypothesis of what kinds of products I can offer, what kinds of lead magnets I should be offering. However, I don't 100% know. And the only way you know is by testing. That's why I'm all about create a freebie down and dirty using AI.

Jillian Leslie [00:14:12]:
And in fact, we offer AI prompts to create like a cheat sheet. Because I love, by the way, notice I'm going to say create if you're going to create a one page PDF. I love a cheat sheet because notice the word cheat sheet. What secret do you have that I would want? Because I want a cheat sheet, right? I want to figure out like, where are these hacks and things that I can use in my own life? Again, thinking in terms of the trigger. But again, I don't know if this is going to work. Maybe it's going to work as an audio file, maybe it's going to work as a workbook, maybe it's going to work as a cheat sheet. So it's like, how can I create these? How can I put them in front of people and see which ones work?

Jillian Leslie [00:14:52]:
I love that. I'm all about creating things. Yeah. Just getting them out there to see first. Right. So I often Love to pre sell things. So have like obviously the rough outline and the rough stuff done, but not making it perfect before you even try to sell it because then what if it doesn't sell? Like what a waste of time that is. So I love that you've brought that up.

Jillian Leslie [00:15:09]:
Well, I say if somebody out there is thinking about I'm going to create my course, I go, no, no, like you pre sell it. If you can pre sell it three times. If people won't just go, oh my God, that sounds so great, Kylie. Like, I'll totally buy it. When you launch it, you say, will you buy it now? And if you can pre sell it, then I say go create the course. But if you don't pre sell it, I say don't do that.

Jillian Leslie [00:15:33]:
Yeah, I love that. So, okay, so somebody's listening to us right now and they have a freebie that is not working. They're putting it out there and they're not getting many signups and they're just really frustrated. Where should they start? What should they do? Should they start right back at the drawing board and think about the triggers and the journey? Is that what you'd suggest?

Jillian Leslie [00:15:50]:
Well, the first, the first thing I would do is get my purchasing trigger download and then I would get my how to create. I give you three AI prompts and you can create a cheat sheet and it incorporates the purchasing triggers and I even give you the Canva template. It's like a no brainer. Of course you can like adjust colors and fonts, but if that's your focus, you're in the wrong direction. So you want to create something that is functional and if you're focused on design, like, no, no, like just get that content out there. So if something isn't working, couple things. One, that's, that's information. Okay, this isn't working.

Jillian Leslie [00:16:30]:
So maybe it isn't even the freebie itself. Maybe it's the way you're talking about the freebie. So I would say go, start with my triggers and start using the language of the trigger to get people to go, ooh, that's interesting. Talk about the problem you solve and poke at the problem you solve. So if you're not, you know, you want to lose ten pounds, I'd start leaning into, do you feel like you don't feel good in your body? I can help you. Do you feel like you still have that pregnancy weight? I can help you. And it's easier than you think, you know, because you want to say, I see you where you are and I'm going to say, I know you are in pain. Let me help you get out of pain and let me paint the picture of what it's going to look like on the other side when you have more energy, when you can put your jeans back on and feel sexy again.

Jillian Leslie [00:17:35]:
All of those things. I'm going to tell the story that you want to hear and I'm going to say I'll be there with you. I will help lead you on this journey and we'll do it together.

Jillian Leslie [00:17:48]:
So powerful. I just want everyone listening to compare the difference between what you just said and how you shared about that free resource as opposed to come and sign up for my 10 page ebook night and day.

Jillian Leslie [00:18:00]:
Exactly. Get my, my three recipes, like my top recipes. How do I know that those recipes, they're your top recipes. Solve something for me. These are 30 minute dinner recipes that you can serve to picky eaters. Picky kids. Oh, I, my kid's a picky eater. Hey, you're solving my problem versus these are my top 10 recipes.

Jillian Leslie [00:18:24]:
I don't care. This is, this is always something interesting that I share. When I first even find out about you, you are there to solve my problems. And the only way I start to get curious about you is if you deliver. And so it's not the Jillian show, it's hey, I might have some knowledge and I can be of help to you. And then maybe you go, hey, who is this Jillian person? Like, how does she know stuff? Like, what's her experience? Okay. And then maybe then you sign up for my newsletter. And I do share like tiny little personal things every week.

Jillian Leslie [00:19:01]:
So I send a newsletter on Sunday and I, it was my birthday last week and we went out for like a really yummy sushi dinner in Austin, where I live. And I put a link to their Instagram and said, hey, if you want good sushi in Austin, I recommend this place. And it was great. And it's like, oh, okay, so now you know my birthday's in February and you know I like sushi, but in truth, it's really not about me. It's really about you and me understanding where you're at and leading you on a journey that makes sense. And then you will pay me to help.

Jillian Leslie [00:19:38]:
Right? There is. That's the picture of building trust and remembering that when people join your email list, when you nail this freebie and you're helping them with this small win and they've joined your email list, then you're just starting this relationship, then you're building trust and actually Getting to help them deeper and deeper each time, obviously, with the different offers that I love. The point that you said at the very beginning that every offer should address one those triggers or one of those buckets. So I think for anyone listening as well, even if you're. You've got your freebie sorted and it's converting and it's working, go back and look at those other offers and make sure they're also addressing one of those purchasing triggers as well.

Jillian Leslie [00:20:13]:
Absolutely. And that it all makes sense in the beginning, like, especially 10, 15 years ago, you know, you could kind of be like, and then I'm going to throw some skin care in there. And it's like, well, like, I'd be very intentional. I was talking to somebody about branding, actually, for my podcast. She's a branding expert. And. And it's like you only have seconds to get some, like, less than a second to get somebody's attention. So if all of a sudden I'm the person who helps you feel great after you've had a baby, like, in terms of weight loss, but then I'm selling you skin care, like, who am I? And then maybe I throw some interior design in there, it's like, no, no, you have to be the person who does exercise.

Jillian Leslie [00:20:57]:
So, again, simple, simple, simple, simple. And that things make sense, like building blocks. I feel like the mistake I continue continually see is, well, then get my. Again, get my skin care PDF and get my weight loss PDF and I'm just kind of throwing spaghetti at the walls. And what do you find? Do you agree? Like, do you see people kind of doing this scattershot strategy? Yeah.

Jillian Leslie [00:21:23]:
And I think. I think it comes back to the fact that they try one thing and it doesn't work. So pivot and try something else and pivot and try something else when actually that one thing will work. It's just being patient and tweaking and testing and figuring it out instead of trying a million different things. And. Because then that just builds confusion. So if you start setting to grow your audience, your email list for this one particular problem, and then you get frustrated, so you try something else, and your audience is confused as well. And then that's distrust.

Jillian Leslie [00:21:50]:
Right. Then that does the opposite of what we're trying to do. So I think patience is definitely testing, tweaking, and having patience is like the name of the game.

Jillian Leslie [00:21:58]:
Exactly. And when I was talking today to this woman about branding, one thing that I shared is that, you know, we're talking about your colors and being consistent and your fonts and your logo and showing up with a certain voice. And I said, and really thinking very concretely about the one problem you solve above all other problems. Which emails are you sending? And people are clicking on the links, like using data like that. So let's say you, you haven't narrowed down, you haven't really niched down. Then I would say go into your analytics, go look at your Instagram reels and see which ones are doing well. What are you noticing? And also what links are people clicking on in the past, emails you've sent to get a sense. Because at the end of the day, if you want to grow business that makes money, it becomes less about what you want and much more about what people want from you.

Jillian Leslie [00:22:57]:
That needs to be on a T shirt, Jillian, that is, yes, absolutely. I think we get so stuck in what we want to do, which is fine. We have to enjoy what we do. We have to be in alignment. It has to feel good. All of those things. That's granted. But it's not about us.

Jillian Leslie [00:23:13]:
It's about the problem that we solve and how we can do that really well for our clients. And when we can get to that place, I think that's when our business starts making a lot of money. That's when we can then start to really make an impact in the world. When we take the focus off ourselves. And doesn't it make it even easier then when we're testing something and it doesn't work, it doesn't mean that we fail. It's just the thing we haven't got sorted yet.

Jillian Leslie [00:23:33]:
It does. It hasn't connected yet. So as part of this, when we were talking about branding, I said, really? I think that a big piece of branding is that problem because that then will take you to what freebie can I offer, what products can I offer? And it all starts. Starts to make sense. I always say that you'll talk to somebody because I get on calls a lot with our milotree customers. And I will say, I want to take like the Crayola crayons with the 64 crayons. I go, I'm taking your box away and I'm replacing it with a box of eight crayons. And now you can only color with the eight crayons, not the 64, because the 64 is a huge distraction.

Jillian Leslie [00:24:16]:
So it's like, simplify, simplify, simplify, get clear.

Jillian Leslie [00:24:20]:
Yeah. For myself, when I've created freebies and things in the past, I always reverse engineer it. Right. So where do I want to lead people? This is the way I Teach it in my membership and things. It's like, where do I want to lead them? What's that main offer? Where do I want them to go? Okay, so what's that first step? And I think if we can be intentional, then we're not just coming up with these random ideas, the 64 color crayon box that are like confusing our audience, we can be more intentional. And then when they sign up for our free resource, we have a plan for them, we have somewhere we want to guide them, which makes sending the email content so much easier because we know what we want to say and how we want to help.

Jillian Leslie [00:24:56]:
Absolutely. And it's funny because as we're, as we're talking, in my mind I'm thinking, here's what I recommend. Go take a walk, go think about this stuff and really get, get clear. And then I'm like, no, go to ChatGPT, go have a conversation with ChatGPT. I deal a lot with customers who have what they're very highly creative. But sometimes when you're so creative, you can be like, have a messy brain and you're constantly chasing that shiny object because that new creative venture sounds really exciting. But now you've got chatgpt. So tell chatgpt all the crazy ideas you have and go, I know these don't fit together, but I do this and I do this and I do this and I'm looking for clarity.

Jillian Leslie [00:25:41]:
What problem do I solve? What am I telling you? Can you help me simplify this? Can you come up with the big problem I solve? And can you give me ideas for my lead magnet, which leads into my guide or ebook, which leads into my workshop, which leads into my little video course, which leads into my membership, which leads into my mastermind. Like, start saying, hey, chatgpt, be my thought partner, help me get clear. Because I promise you, I think she's amazing.

Jillian Leslie [00:26:16]:
Do you know what? I think that's probably the best thing about AI and ChatGPT that I found because I'm one of those people, I used to be a photographer, super creative, often would just throw out offers willy nilly because I was excited all the things. And so ChatGPT, when it first was released, I would literally just voice record and word vomit, like all my thoughts, what I tried, what didn't work, what I wanted to do and just word vomit it all. And the amount of times that it would come back with just this simple, ah, this is what I think you're trying to achieve. Like, thank you. I think that's like one of the best things.

Jillian Leslie [00:26:54]:
Absolutely. So I would say now that, you know, you start with the purchasing triggers and you start with the problem you solve and you talk about how to break it down. Like, and then you say to ChatGPT, this, this opt in isn't working. So before you, you abandon it and come up with five more freebies, say, hey, chatgpt, this isn't working. I feel like it should, but I'm missing something. It's not connecting with the people I want to attract. What can I do? How can I switch up my marketing? Go put these six purchasing triggers in your prompt and say, how can I tap into these? How can I make it so that it goes from a nice to have to a must have? So before you go, and now I gotta talk about skin care, step back and say, how can I just tweak it a little bit so that it will potentially connect and save you so.

Jillian Leslie [00:27:51]:
Much work remaking that you might not need to.

Jillian Leslie [00:27:55]:
So much work. Absolutely. So it just, it's exciting talking about business building this way because hopefully for your audience it's not overwhelming. Like, it's not rocket science. It's a lot about patience. And then one other thing too that I see in my audience members and customers is they get incredibly deflated when things don't work. Like, people will say, I tried selling digital products, it doesn't work for me. And I go, tell me, what did you try? And.

Jillian Leslie [00:28:27]:
And maybe it's, you know, that you're not special, that it just doesn't work for you. Maybe you haven't quite figured it out yet, but so much of building an online business is figuring it out. And what might work for one person doesn't necessarily work for somebody else. So you've got to. Because your audience is different than their audience. And so many, there's so many variables. So it's like being curious. And as I had shared earlier, you're just a minor and you're mining for gold and you have a hypothesis, but you don't know where the gold is buried.

Jillian Leslie [00:29:01]:
So you might have to dig in a couple different spots. You're not going to find, sorry, gold bricks at the beginning. You're going to look for the gold specs. So you're going to just find a couple people who opt in to your freebie. Maybe then you befriend those people, maybe you DM with them and you know, on, you reach out on Instagram with them and maybe you say, hey, like, why did you opt in? What were you trying to achieve? And what are some other problems that you're having. Because a lot of times we think we know and we don't know. And when you can hear the customer or the subscriber talk about the problem in their language, it is fascinating. And then in your marketing going forward, use their language.

Jillian Leslie [00:29:50]:
I love that, Jillian. I love that analogy as well. And I feel like if we can get into this frame of mind for everybody listening, if they can start to think of it that way, then like you said, so many people feel deflated. They cannot take it personally. It's actually, oh no, this is part of the process. This is part of me finding the massive big gold stash under there. I need to be doing this. This is just part of the process.

Jillian Leslie [00:30:11]:
So I love that it's just information now that's hard. But this is why I recommend moving faster than you want, putting out stuff that's rougher than you want, making it triggery, leaning into those things to get people interested and seeing if you can just continue to kind of tweak and iterate until you are able to connect what you're offering with your people.

Jillian Leslie [00:30:39]:
So good. Thank you so much for sharing so much with us. This has given me and I'm sure everybody a lot to think about. So good. Can you just repeat that URL again? I'll put it in the show notes. But the trigger URL.

Jillian Leslie [00:30:49]:
Yeah. So it's easy. It's milotree m I l o t r e e.com triggers. And by the way, like we have a free plan with milotree. You can sign up and you can sell a digital product, offer a freebie and get one of our social media pop ups for free forever. No credit card, no nothing. Like you could go with our purchasing triggers, create a PDF, upload it to our platform. We integrate with all major email service providers so when somebody subscribes through our AI generated opt in page that you share everywhere, your email, your name and email address automatically will get sent into ConvertKit or Mailchimp or Mailerlite or Flodesk, wherever, whatever service you use.

Jillian Leslie [00:31:42]:
But I'd say start there because if it doesn't work, take it down, put up a new one and it's all free. But go see actually the opt in page that our AI will write for you.

Jillian Leslie [00:31:55]:
Oh, I'm so interested about that because I have so many members and clients that I'm always reviewing and optimizing and providing feedback. But there's only one of me, like AI is there. So I love the idea that you've got that.

Jillian Leslie [00:32:06]:
Yeah, so go check that out and go milotree.com and sign up for free and check it out.

Jillian Leslie [00:32:13]:
Amazing. I will put those links in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast and having this conversation with me. I loved it so much.

Jillian Leslie [00:32:20]:
Oh great. And I'll be seeing you in a very shortly to record mine.

Jillian Leslie [00:32:24]:
Yes, I can't wait. Thanks Gillian thank you. Thank you so much for tuning into.

Kylie Kelly [00:32:29]:
This episode of the Email Growth Show. I hope you found valuable insights into the next steps you can take to grow your email list and boost your business without relying on social media or paid ads. If you enjoy this episode, please take a moment to rate and review the show and share it with others. Your feedback helps me reach more female entrepreneurs just like you who are ready to say goodbye to social media and leverage email marketing to grow their business and make a bigger impact.

Jillian Leslie [00:32:55]:
Thank you so much for listening and.

Kylie Kelly [00:32:57]:
I'll see you in the next episode.